在美国种族平等系列:“宗教种族正义”的故事SwatTalk
Shreena甘地的01,密歇根州立大学宗教研究教授,和谢丽尔·桑德斯的74年,霍华德大学基督教伦理学教授和高级神第三街教堂的牧师在华盛顿特区
2021年3月29日,周一,记录
成绩单
蒂娜吉普赛人你好,每个人。感谢你的到来。我的名字是蒂娜吉普赛人,我2013级和校友理事会的成员。SwatTalks,对于那些不太熟悉的是我们的校友理事会计划之一。我们会谈一个团队组织,由我,约瑟夫·贝克尔BoHee Yoon和丽莎Schaefer。谢谢你的团队。所以欢迎今晚的SwatTalk,宗教在美国种族平等的故事。这将是我们最后的谈话在我们月的长系列种族平等。作为一个主修宗教在斯沃斯莫尔,我觉得宗教是一个很好的方式结束本系列10月份开最佳线上娱乐始。对于那些错过了沿途的会谈,你可以在我们的网页上找到他们。 They cover anything from art and activism, census, health, equity and education. Tonight, we are honored to have Dr. Cheryl Sanders, who is a member of the class of 1974, and Dr. Shreena Gandhi, who is a member of the class of 2001. Dr. Sanders is a professor of Christian Ethics at Howard University School of Divinity where she teaches courses in Christian ethics, pastoral ethics, and African-American spirituality. Her current research is looking at theological responses to the problem of anti-blackness. Professor Sanders has also been the senior pastor of the Third Street Church of God in Washington, D.C. since 1997. She is also the president of the American Theological Society. Interestingly, Dr. Sanders majored in mathematics at Swarthmore before later taking a black theology class at Harvard University after graduating from Swarthmore and later pursued a master of divinity and doctor of theology at Harvard Divinity School. Dr. Shreena Gandhi is our second speaker tonight. She's a cultural historian of religion with expertise in religion, race, the Americas and Hinduism. Trained that Swarthmore in religious studies and later Harvard Divinity School and University of Florida. Professor Gandhi currently teaches at Michigan State University. Her research and public scholarship are on the history of yoga in the US. And she is revising a manuscript on this using the framework of white supremacy and cultural appropriation. Professor Gandhi is also a member of the Feminist Critical Hindu Studies Collective which encourages a reoriented approach to Hindu studies which takes into consideration white supremacy and caste supremacy for monarchical patriarchy. So our first half hour tonight will be a discussion amongst the three of us. I'll just be simply asking questions. The second half will be dedicated to our usual question and answers. So everyone please feel free to use the chat function to submit your questions. We probably won't be able to get to all of them but I will try my best to get to as many as I can. And please include your name and your class year when you submit your question. So right off the bat, we've had quite a year, COVID has had a disproportionate impact on minority communities. We saw mass Black Lives Matter demonstrations over the summer and into the fall. And then that was followed by the election and the attack on the Capitol. So in the description of this talk, I describe religion as an oppressive but also redemptive force. So overall, this is a question for both of you. What role do you see religion playing when you consider what we've been through in the last year?
谢丽尔·桑德斯好,我要开始了。首先,表示我的感谢的机会是一个非常重要的对话的一部分。我认为,我们看到在过去一年的事件和正在进行的和高度对抗这两个维度之间在宗教团体,特别是在基督教。有,我们双方说基督徒吗?和推动正义的人。为种族平等选民登记在一个更广泛的基础上,关注的人的差距,揭示COVID-19大流行。他们逐步的有信仰的人是谁,一边和另一个极端,我们意识到,我们吓坏了,我住在华盛顿特区。我们很惊恐地看到基督教的旗帜和十字架与南方国旗的象征,人们与他们进行攻击国会大厦。显然这些极端的,我们说社会道德和政治。我认为一些谈话的未来会是基督教护教学。我们要告诉人们穿过过道,但信仰社区内,怎么了,谁我们争夺信仰在地面上,在政治和经济的背景下,我们认为挑战吗?
Shreena甘地你给我很多思考桑德斯博士。作为一个不是特别宗教和不断思考不确定与特定的信仰。我倾向于认为宗教一点结构系统。我认为经常有这些进步,这些意图更为保守的元素在一个特定的社区,和你有不同的性维护不同的值。这可以在一个宗教。这一矛盾不断维护虽然因为有这动力的一步,维护现状和特定系统的力量。另外我觉得人生活的一种方式和写的另一种方式。所以他们会说宗教,他们进步的宗教和信仰,但是他们会做别的事情。所以我给你的例子实际上是印度教徒,我出生在自己的社区,这里有印度教徒在美国非常表达,pro黑人的生活,说所有正确的事情,但当谈到对莫迪和他说一些非常零星的反穆斯林政策在印度逐渐成为法西斯主义是什么,他们不会说什么。事实上,他们爱他。 So these contradictions are constantly intentioned with each other. And people live those contradictions quite often easily and willfully.
蒂娜吉普赛人你的话让我很矛盾自然我的下一个问题,这是桑德斯博士,但是甘地博士,请跳。桑德斯博士,你写的非裔美国人的精神成长,挑战一个考虑是什么样子一位目击者受难。你写一下这个精神。你能谈谈这首歌的意义在今天我们当前的时刻吗?
谢丽尔·桑德斯谢谢你的问题。我认为这是一个非常重要和紧迫的问题。我是一个牧师,这是圣周。这些都是《纽约时报》,这个星期来问一个问题,你有吗?这是最好的爱灵歌,你当他们钉死我的主?哦,有时候让我颤抖,是你。和这是一个传统的黑人灵歌,但这首歌迫使你考虑十字架。这就是这首歌。对我来说,非裔美国人的经验,这是一个奇迹在历史上考虑,任何黑人成为基督徒。因为基督徒被奴役的人,绑架、折磨,强奸,偷了劳动,利用非裔美国人。 And so how does anybody black become a Christian? They become a Christian because they have some experience of solidarity with the suffering of Christ. And so crucifixion is not just a concept for suffering people. It's, to see Jesus on the cross, is to say Jesus is identified with our suffering. Now, the other piece of that, which is one I really want to push in Holy week and these conversations we need to have toward reconciliation is how do you claim salvation from a man who died on the cross and then turn around and put other people on the cross. You can't have it both ways. You can't be a crucifier and claim the grace of salvation or a substitutionary atonement or whatever, so. I don't see a contradiction African-American religion. What I see is getting a clear message that the suffering of Jesus Christ at the hands of the Empire, is our encouragement to live in our position and to advance the cause of justice and do all of that within a frame of reference that's consistent with our faith and the will of God.
蒂娜吉普赛人之前太远离我们的谈话,我们谈到了关于1月6日,我想花一些时间来讨论宗教这一天。我们看到十字架竖起,我们看到在我们的新闻,竖立附近,附近的十字架。你们如何看待宗教,白人至上,所有的那天在国会大厦?也作为一个跟随,我们如何一旦承认,宗教或许能给我们一个框架如何从那一刻作为一个国家前进?
谢丽尔·桑德斯嗯,我可以回答。1月6日,显示了白人至上,我会说基督教的特定变体交织在一起。最神奇的事情,我们仍在谈论在华盛顿特区,is that you have a violent onslaught against the nation's Capitol, against the Capitol Building, breaking windows, bearing weapons and, it's like, it's not a problem. Whereas, from the moment it was occurring, it's like if these had been black people, they'd have dropped a bomb on us. but it's almost like, well, boys will be boys. It was white people who did it, It's not that big of a deal and that helps to account for the very confused and slow response by various layers of law enforcement. So it's like, what if white people do it, if white people believe it, white people have certain privileges including the privilege of protest. And so I have to push back on that on the ground of faith and to say, that's not my religion. And the Confederate flag is not my symbol, but we are horrified by the behavior but we, it reveals a clear double standard in law enforcement and how people are even regarded and feared as threats. And even when we take a threatening posture.
Shreena甘地是的,我同意。这是一个可怕的一天,我感觉整个天我在即时聊天消息组与新兵同胞的不相信发生了什么。,但对于我们这些研究了白人至上的历史和白色的基督教,也不是最大的惊喜。这种活动中一直和我在这里在密歇根,所以我每天看到它,每天都害怕它。另一件我想把1月6日,我不认为你可以忽略QAnon特别是QAnon萨满的。我不知道你们看到他与一头水牛,如果你愿意。他基本上是打扮成他想象的剪切和粘贴版本土著美国人穿。在这个国家,我们有一个历史的曙光,穿着灭种而系统地对那些土著社区通过战争,通过土地没收,商品化。我给你两个例子,一个波士顿倾茶事件。他们把完美的茶湾,但他们没有,怎么说,自己有足够的信心去做只是为白人抗议实际上降低税收,但他们打扮成印第安人同时踢印第安人离开他们的土地在现在的马萨诸塞州。 And then I also think of Coachella and how people will go around wearing head dresses, not realizing that some of these are sacred symbols of the very communities that they're appropriating. What are they giving back? Nothing. So we have this long history that was also intertwined and inter kind of braided into what was going on on January 6th, that kind of exposes so many of the facets of white supremacy beyond just abject violence and disregard for human life.
蒂娜吉普赛人关于暴力的挪用另一种文化,另一个宗教,甘地博士,你写了很多关于瑜伽的拨款。我会想象,很多人可能会感到惊讶,没有适当的考虑过的瑜伽的历史。所以我想把它交给你的给历史和给我们的照片,你所做的工作。
Shreena甘地好吧,我不知道,我可以给你一个大的概述瑜伽在美国的历史。我已经写了一本书,我在修改,并试图戒掉这么多,因为你有一个词限制。但我,瑜伽是它的一部分,在这个国家的历史文化拨款。和文化拨款与成为白人和白人至上的过程。你知道并不是每一个集团在美国可以变成白色。还有一个这个交换的过程,文化力量之一,因此文化和准备的力量。我认为发生的是,以弥补损失,你有白人社区,白人民族主义像我们看到1月6日。你有一些,转向一种拥抱他们想象他们的种族身份。我认为一个很好的例子是意大利人转向克里斯托弗·哥伦布象征着他们的文化。当的时候,他甚至没有在意大利跨越大西洋,犯下各种各样的暴行在加勒比海。 And then you also have figures like Henry David Thoreau and what Ralph Waldo Emerson through today of people turning to either Eastern or what they imagine as exotic cultures often colonized cultures for that rootedness and yoga is one example of what people turn to to feel kind of a connection that they lost through the process of becoming white. It's not just yoga, it's things like the martial arts, food, contemplative practices. Those are all kind of turned to, to kind of give people a sense of history, a sense of spirituality. But what really kind of bothers me in this moment about that is that oftentimes people will be okay with appropriating the culture but they don't want the people. And that is problematic. And to me indicative of a lot, of the larger issue of white supremacy. And, in this age of anti-Asian, anti-black violence, anti-indigenous violence, I don't think it's okay to appropriate the culture but then be violent towards the people. There's a part of me that wants to say, then you can't have our culture. I know that's not possible, but especially over the past week with all the grieving that I've witnessed and been a part of, it is definitely frustrating.
蒂娜吉普赛人桑德斯博士,我不确定如果你想添加任何东西,因为你是静音状态,但我将继续。桑德斯博士,你的工作,我们只是聊天,在我们开始之前,你是共享,一些工作看起来神圣和五旬节的传统和排序的方法,他们偏离新教常态的方式给你希望的方式,他们工作在社会正义。你能谈谈你从那些或从传统?
谢丽尔·桑德斯嗯,我已经形成的传统。所以收集我所做的来自各种地方和记忆和经验的研究除了传统的来源。我相信你得到的圣洁和五旬节的传统宗教是一种实践,至少有助于团结和连接基于经验的共性。它甚至是一种特定的跨信仰维度,我经历的人,他们相信超自然的存在。你不能,你没有相同的观点甚至基督教的超自然的整个频谱。高教堂、低教堂,狂喜的赞美,安静的赞美,社会的朋友,你有一个非常强大的神学的精神但是礼拜仪式是非常安静和反射。而在神圣和五旬节的传统,你的崇拜。你倾向于强调性能但能量性能不仅仅是包含在敬拜。它也是体现在公共广场。所以我最近所做的一篇论文,我将包括在我即将出版的书中,我谈到一个非常著名的人。他的名字叫主教Smallwood威廉姆斯。 He was the pastor and founder of a very large Pentecostal Church, Apostolic Church in Washington. But if you even just look at portrayals of him, he's very aggressive and vocal in the public square, praying and preaching and bold. And so that Holy boldness is not just being spiritual. It's not just channeled into winning souls and getting people to be converted. There's also energy that gets translated into pushing for change, pushing for justice. And if you go all the way back to Church of God in Christ, is a major denomination, there were women leaders back in the days of Mary McLeod Bethune who were active in the Black Women's Club Movement. They're protesting, they're in the street, they're showing up at the White House, they're doing all kinds of things, bringing that energy and that dignity to the pursuit of justice. So that story needs to be told. They're not necessarily the exceptions, they're not necessarily exceptional, but what I want to talk about is the connection between the energy of liturgy and the push for justice and equality.
蒂娜吉普赛人这就像迷人的工作。所以考虑到今天是德里克Chauvin审判的第一天,我不希望我们的谈话结束没有谈论乔治·弗洛伊德和去年夏天我们看到黑人生活的大规模示威活动。当你在看夏天到秋天,黑人生命物质运动,有方法,你看到的宗教社会正义的工作,提供不同的东西吗?有一种特征或能力,是独特的吗?
谢丽尔·桑德斯我不确定,我看到了各种各样的反应,但我觉得对我来说,迷人的结果到目前为止,因为我们在这个试验的开始,我不知道,我的意思是,如果事情他们走了过去,会有一个无罪释放,会有爆发的愤怒,我们就从那里开始。我不能说会发生什么。但回到最初的播放视频,和最初的抗议,几个葬礼和巨大的国际社会的愤怒。我看到很清楚,在过去的几个月,大气中有某种形式的转变。南方纪念碑开始下降。邦联旗帜,人们争夺来的声音在教堂和公共广场。信号的时刻之一,我认为这是6月1日,前总统从白宫游行的人催泪毒气毒死,黑人的生活物质撕裂加油,他举起一本圣经,站在圣公会教堂的前面。这是如此的令人发指。然后在接下来的两天,华盛顿市长下令大字母的黑色物质是生命。基本上他的地址是1600年从宾夕法尼亚大街1600号改为黑色物质生活广场。 And so, it's just a little symbolic gesture but many of my colleagues in ministry after that, they were ready to march. They were ready to come out. And so what I'm trying to say is something shifted with the death and the response to the George Lloyd case, and it's not ended yet. It's not a unified thing, but it's very broad. And there have been so many places where it's like, there's an opening, there's an opportunity for change. And I just don't wanna miss the moment. And that would be my advice. It's not that there has to be a particular group organizing or leading, but we just need to stay in the conversation. We need to stay in the mix because there's things that are happening, there's change that's coming. The pandemic, the COVID-19 pandemic sort of, as a whole another layer of complexity to that. But this has been a periodic moment for churches this past year. And church is not gonna be the same going forward. Let us hope that there'll be some of that disentangling of the racism and the structural elements going forward so that we can look forward to a better way of relating to one another.
Shreena甘地我猜我只是比你更悲观,桑德斯博士。之后,整个夏天,我觉得在宗教研究,在各种南亚社区,有质疑或清算在白人至上的作用。南亚人历史悠久的anti-blackness需要面对和根除。但我看到的是大量的阅读列表。这就是你应该阅读白人至上。这是你应该阅读理解种族在这个国家。我没有看到很多从一般白人和亚洲人的行动。你打算采取什么措施来确保我们没有看到另一个Breonna泰勒事件,或另一个塔米尔米饭事件?你在干什么在你的社区警察负责?我刚听到纽约摆脱附条件豁免权。 That's the first step. But I don't know how much people are willing to let go of their power, for this change to occur because white supremacy is all about power. And I think people are really comfortable in their lives for the most part in the United States. And I just don't know how, or if people are willing to kind of cede that for the greater good. So like Dr. Sanders said, this is a watching moment, too. This is all kind of in process. I have, it's kind of one of those moments where I'm hoping for the best, but preparing myself for the worst.
蒂娜吉普赛人所以我觉得问题已经进来了。所以我会但我想确保我们有一个时刻谈论拍摄几周前在格鲁吉亚,女人,六人,亚裔美国人,被残忍地杀害,亚裔,亚裔仇恨犯罪的上升。特别有趣的是后,我读了许多亚裔美国教会领袖呼吁,要求采取行动除了祈祷。你有射手来自,他的教会的名字,红果第一浸信会教堂,白人为主的社区。我可以读什么,他们似乎有点保守。因此,要把它轻轻地。我的意思是,只是,这里有这么多将但你们一直看后发生了什么和宗教团体的反应在地上或甘地博士,我觉得这个问题可能是你的工作。
Shreena甘地嗯,我肯定见过东亚教会组织。我就没见过这么多其他教会,但桑德斯博士,你可能知道更多关于发生了什么在黑人教堂。再一次,我看到很多我的大学在我的大学和各部门各企业网站声明说,他们反对亚裔恨。我仅仅是特定的,现在这是一个时刻,我东亚兄弟姐妹正在经历的仇恨犯罪。就像9/11后,南亚人通常是仇恨犯罪实干家的目标。我不知道如何说。但是,你知道,这是一个困难的事情的理解,或者就自己被侵犯了,被攻击你。所以我的心飞向了特别是我东亚学生只是他们现在摇摇欲坠。再一次,我说过,我看到很多这样的语句,我看到很多人说喜欢,我应该读什么书了解亚洲历史在美国或亚洲宗教在美国?我没有看到很多动作。 So what policies are you going to enact in your department to hold accountable those faculty or those church members or your coworkers when they say something anti-Asian or make certain gestures that are anti Eastasians. How are you gonna hold them accountable? Are you going to fire them? Are you gonna give them a dock in pay? What are the tangible material consequences of racism and what I feel like we're at a moment right now where being called racist is seen as worse as actually doing racist things because there's no accountability. So that's where we have to move back to. To a place where we can say you did this, that is racist, these are your material consequences. And if we can't get back to that moment, then again, we're just playing with empty words.
谢丽尔·桑德斯我只是想说明,所有的甘地博士谈到,黑人教堂的反应,我们已经有这个谈话,他们已经经历了所有的时间。我们现在刚刚第一次我认为我可能是错的,但第一次我听到美国总统,使用术语国内恐怖主义。和国内恐怖主义一直在我们的生活。这是我们的经验,所以你说什么。后果是什么?人们如何负责?有多少次黑人说,试图结构?所以,是的,我们都准备好了,随时准备参与谈话。我想到斯沃斯莫尔学院和联邦调最佳线上娱乐查局。之前我去了斯沃斯莫尔,你可以想象古代历史在我最佳线上娱乐的时间。 But putting students, black students at Swarthmore under surveillance, okay. So the FBI, this domestic terrorist, people were being killed and bombed and assassinated. And what's the response of the government? What's the response of the FBI? Well, let's put these black people under surveillance. So what I'm saying is now is the time for us to bring everybody into the conversation and call it what it is. Domestic terrorism. And so it just really annoys me when I hear on the news reports, oh, they're investigating whether or not this is a hate crime. It's such a joke, how do you, okay, investigate, no, it's not a hate crime. Where on the face of it, it's a hate crime. Okay, so we're ready for the conversation. We're ready to be better organized and positioned locally, nationally in a consistent way. I think the January 6 event pulled the cover off of how law enforcement responds to the color of the terrorists. We pulled the cover off that, so let's fix it.
蒂娜吉普赛人伟大的回答。我认为,我们将进入的问题来自我们的观众。所以第一个从丽贝卡·亚历山大,1986级。宗教可以分裂以及凝聚力。有很多人精神的而不是宗教。灵性,是独立于宗教可能不是分裂的,但它也没有精力去推动社会正义。好吧。我们如何利用宗教/精神道德指南针,让我们在正确的方向上没有分歧。我猜他们说正确的方向对社会正义。但我猜但谢谢你,丽贝卡。
谢丽尔·桑德斯我认为这是非常重要的问题。的宗教信仰和精神之间的二分法,似乎是一个永久的我们文化的一部分,尤其是对年轻人似乎不需要很多理由不去教堂或不接受任何特定的宗教。我想说的是,我们需要的是一个宗教或灵性,我们可以建立团结和社区。灵性的问题如果只是一个人的知识经验,没有礼拜仪式或社区建设。当你建立社区的问题有时你带来一种构建反对改变。但我认为,未来的挑战是找到方法来构建礼拜仪式和社区创建可持续的宣传。我认为宗教可以提供。
Shreena甘地是的,在宗教研究,有那么多人近看这个现象,我的同事叫宗教第五次祈祷,宗教第五次祈祷的崛起,N-O-N-E-S。,尤其是在千禧一代和Z一代,这个群体是指数增长的,因为他们没有看到任何目的或积极的有组织的宗教。我知道很多人在我这一代的X世代已经发现,他们不能完全信任的一些宗教组织,特别是在这些问题的天主教虐待儿童。现在我们学习,南方浸信会教徒。再次,像我讲过矛盾,人们看到在宗教机构维护权力的问题。桑德斯博士因此我同意,如果我们可以创造一些地方是一种常见的仪式,一个社区因为我们不能作为个体存在。那是不可持续的,它不一定是健康的。,我注意到的是,这就是为什么我看到很多年轻的人,即使在我这一代,转向瑜伽和瑜伽,不仅对他们的健康,而且你已经看到在过去的5到10年,越来越多的社区的瑜伽和社会正义的工作,我认为是非常有趣的和强大的和面对这些问题的白人至上。我在不少瑜伽工作室谈论这个,它总是真的接受。另一方面我也得到了死亡威胁和强奸威胁我的工作。所以它可以有较多的选择。 But I think we have this tension in the United States of always trending or attempting to trend towards individual desires, individual forms of understanding spirituality, but society is successful when we have community. And I think a lot of this has to do with capitalism. Capitalism celebrates the individual and individual choices and the ability to own anything as an individual whether it's land or culture and people don't like being told, no, you can't own this or you can't have this. And so when people go towards spirituality, they're often told yes, a little bit more too. So I see the reasons why people are turning away from religion, but it's also to me, an inherently American move that celebrates individuality.
蒂娜吉普赛人似乎我们的观众点是正确的,因为我们有明矾劳拉·麦基在10分钟前谁写的问题。盖洛普刚刚推出了一项民意调查显示,只有不到50%的美国人属于一个宗教团体。这预示着对宗教的任何积极的影响我们的未来作为一个国家吗?所以她是对的点。你想解决,进一步的吗?我觉得我们覆盖它。
谢丽尔·桑德斯嗯,我想挑战,在过去的一年里有一个巨大的挑战组织宗教,强加的大流行,COVID 19大流行。所以你是否有一个小山上的教堂或大的教堂或现代大型教堂,机会是长凳上是空的,好吧,因为大流行这意味着教会需要上网和使用消息传递技术,为他们的招聘、筹款和鼓励人们或与人连接的服务项目。现在,在我的经验中,有时你可以让人们参与服务项目如果他们不参与任何其他东西。所以我认为这是一种开放的现在,压扁,我们将曲线,有些人无论如何,我们最终会回到数字和崇拜,但我们要做不同的教会。我们教会,我们建立社区的方式,我认为是永远会被改变,它会是不同的。现在是令人沮丧的,有点像玻璃,玻璃半满还是半空,50%。我认为挑战是认为除了教会的四面墙和冠状病毒做了我们一个忙,迫使这个问题。
蒂娜吉普赛人嗯,那是如此有趣。甘地博士,还有什么你想说之前我继续下一个吗?
Shreena甘地不了,谢谢。
蒂娜吉普赛人好吧。下一个问题来自BoHee Yoon, 2001级。我们如何能帮助消除厌女症在宗教,我们争取种族平等吗?
谢丽尔·桑德斯好问题。我是女人牧师,显然我在一个社区运营,至少是对女性领导开放但我认为女性领导的关键是解决厌女症。不是所有女性领导者的定位都反对它,但一些厌女症是基于无知和怀疑女性的参与,女人的归属感,女性的平等。所以我们只需要女性来的声音,出现,在房间里,精益谢莉尔·桑德伯格认为,在政策的决策表,设置和人们被追究责任。所以我认为,我会小心的,教堂,女性有权威和访问与平等,我认为至少有更多的利用在解决厌女症明显比沉默的教会妇女和把它们排除在决策和领导能力的过程。
Shreena甘地是的,我认为我是从哪里来的,这就是我教。不仅是黑色和棕色的故事如此重要中心,开始从当教学关于宗教或宗教在美国。同样的女人。但是我认为我们必须检查是我教的学科,机构在我教,是父权制深陷。所以解决父权根,白人优越主义的根源,帝国根我的领域,是我想做的事情在每一节课,所以学生们可以看到他们的生活是如何参与这些压迫系统。一旦他们开始发现,一旦他们开始看到你知道,女权主义不仅仅是摆脱男性,但消除父权制。他们发现种族主义并不只是说我没有看到颜色,它是一个更大系统的一部分,某些群体,让他们某些特权优势。或者在自己的宗教,我在一定程度上提高了很多印度教徒会说我没有看到种姓或种姓不是问题,但这仍然是一个问题。一个大比例的达利特女性和男性在这个国家说,他们受到上层种姓印度教徒的歧视。这是一个问题。 There is a rape crisis, I can't speak, sorry, there's a rape crisis in India right now. And the majority of people who are targeted by gang rapes are Dalit women. So understanding these different oppressions intersectionality and I think is incredibly important to teach and not just to teach kind of a celebratory narrative but one that kind of exposes the ways in which different oppressions, I'm just gonna use this word again intersect with each other and starting to at least think about how we can eliminate some of those structural impediments to full liberation for everyone.
蒂娜吉普赛人我来自一个希腊东正教的背景。就在思考这个问题,我的意思是,只是语言,就像我们从来没有听到代词,她和描述上帝,总是他。这就使得年轻女性这样的差别,只是语言。我们不,我们不允许有女祭司。所以当你觉得如何,布道,而缺乏女性存在于我们的传统解释,只是这样一个耻辱。桑德斯博士,你的观点的重要性有一个女人在餐桌上,也在改变,它只是所以重要的第一步。好的,我在这里工作过这些问题。这是Felix Vergel,对不起,我不上课,但是有更多的悲观主义对黑人平等的可能性比有30或40年前或悲观总是黑色的现实生活?
谢丽尔·桑德斯这是一个很难的问题。我想答案是,是的。有一些现在比30或40年前更悲观,但悲观主义一直存在,它实际上是凝固成一件事,一场运动,一个知识分子轨道。但对我来说,重要的是我是一个基督徒是有线希望有勇气和悲观主义者诚实地参与对话。因为悲观主义者是由一个不同的角度,不同的观点,但它不会帮助否认。但我仍然认为,希望会给你一个更好的机会比悲观持续抗议,因为悲观熊一定的透明度和坦诚乐观主义者没有。但是我的整个重点是可持续发展,可持续发展的努力。所以如果悲观主义者组织,社区周围的悲观情绪。但是我要把我的钱放在社区的希望,然后参与和拥抱我们前进的悲观主义者。
Shreena甘地我永远不会认为说话的非洲裔或黑人社区。我只会说很快,我找到的灵感之一在黑人教堂的定心的《出埃及记》的书,在《出埃及记》这本书,这是一个希望的书。所以,是的,我想是更有希望,桑德斯博士。我需要从你的灵感。
谢丽尔·桑德斯这很好。
蒂娜吉普赛人所以从彼得Klocky另一个问题,抱歉如果我念错你的名字。他的问题是,基督徒像我这样和我崇拜谁,憎恶种族隔离,然而基督教堂,甚至美国最先进的地区往往是种族隔离的。主要是黑人和白人教会应该做些什么来调整这种情况吗?
谢丽尔·桑德斯我有一个简单的解决这个问题。和我简单的解决方案是宣告扇敞开的门。我的阅读启示录说,当约翰这个愿景的天堂,他看见的第一件事就是打开门。门,都敞开着,好吧。没有圣彼得在门口,没有警察,没有文档。它只是一个扇敞开的门。如果我们可以宣称,那么我们必须实现在我们的教堂。在教堂里,打开门的实际尺寸意味着任何人来我的教会是受欢迎的。欢迎你来敬拜,欢迎你留下来,我们将拥抱你。我们不会质疑你的颜色或其他方面。 But you embody for us an opportunity for hospitality. It's a different ethos than many of our churches have had whose churches just reflect the racism of the society. But if we're going to embrace this, I'll just say a renewed reading of our mandate and scripture, I say the open door and I can really go with that electronically in terms of our digital outreach, to make it attractive to as broad a spectrum of people as we can, because it is not in our best interest to only have people like us. We want our messaging and our community, we want to work and be intentional about diversity. But the rationale for it is what's lacking. And I think that as time goes on, we get more, I see more and more reasons to have welcoming. The worst stories are the churches where, you show up at that church, it's a white church, and they were like, oh, you didn't mean to come here, you meant to go to the church around the corner. So if we could get to a place where our door is open and welcoming to people, we'll be good.
Shreena甘地我说我做了相当多的反种族主义培训。的一件事,我们在训练中做的是核心。这意味着我们核心的人自己的背景。有时没有足够的人去做喜欢的颜色或像南亚或黑人,拉丁X人组。所以我们都聚集在一起,然后是白人。很多人不喜欢,因为他们觉得他们隔离。但我认为这一个,我并不认为这是教会一样好,但是我,再一次,我不是一个基督徒,所以我不能说话。但是我要说的是,在我们的社区,我们有很多工作要做。我能说南亚社区,我们有很多工作要做时我们的一些关于种姓偏见,关于anti-blackness,关于精英的神话,当涉及到移民。有时很好谈话。 And from what I can observe is that white folks have a lot of work to do. So sometimes meeting on your own and talking to your own about racism, about whitesupremacy is more effective than me doing that. That's not gonna work. They're not going to listen to me in the same way they'll listen to you. So what I'm asking white folks to do right now, is to be that, is to do that work. Is to have those uncomfortable moments, those uncomfortable conversations and that confrontation of racist, white supremacist history that we like to kind of gloss over or iced over with American exceptionalism. But one of my favorite theologians, what, not theologian, sorry, theories of Religion said that, we have this rot in this country. We keep putting on different hats to hide the rot, but the rot is still there. And so right now that moment, we have this moment right now and I'd like to see more people kind of taking the reins and talking to their own.
蒂娜吉普赛人对不起,你认为我插入自己的问题,但这些交谈,你看到宗教空间的,无论是教堂或犹太教堂宗教空间我们谈论,排序的理想空间交谈就很不舒服吗?我的意思是,对一些人不舒服。
谢丽尔·桑德斯是的,是的,是的。我的意思是,在哪里我们可以和在线谈话就像这样。或者我们可以用我们的实际空间但是他们不舒服的谈话。但见,我总是想添加一些参考我们的授权和认同感,我们是谁。我们能真正的成为我们是谁,我们自称是耶稣基督的追随者,而不是参与的对话,然后提高难题,哭泣的泪水。然后我们可以走在真实,我们可以谈论教会的共谋和过去的历史。我们可以把未来的愿景的正义与平等,这是一种社区,我们认为我们将会看到在天上。因为有一首歌,奴隶,他们用来唱歌和说,每个人都在谈论天堂,不是去那里。所以有一个责任,推动我们那些艰难的谈话还是在餐桌上,因为他们中的一些人在餐桌上。无论是在教堂还是在公共场所或在网上,我们可以再次通过,敞开大门,扩大连接。
Shreena甘地我去过当地印度教寺庙谈论这些问题,但我也会说的人不一定是宗教、教室,特别是通过12 K的教室,是一种很好的空间的这些谈话开始。所以去你当地学校董事会和提倡这种类型的教育,反种族主义教育你的学校董事会。
谢丽尔·桑德斯很好,我喜欢。
蒂娜吉普赛人好,谢谢你这么多。对不起,明矾的观众,我们没有得到你所有的问题。人仍然添加注释。所以谢谢你。非常感谢你们桑德斯博士,博士甘地对于这样一个美妙的谈话。和每个人都很好。和感谢你收看这SwatTalk。
Shreena甘地谢谢你！
谢丽尔·桑德斯晚安，各位。
蒂娜吉普赛人再见。
